1. 2008-03-02 01:14:36

   Live session March 1

   I wanted to see how I will do in live poker in a casino setting.
   So I headed down to Joe's this afternoon.

   I sat down at a new table that was being assembled. 1/2/2. (Button pays 1 and blinds 2,2). To limp in it is 5$
   I wanted to play deep so bought in for 240.
   The game has 6$/30min rake.
   The game very very loose and full of fish.
   Some instances:
   The first few hands preflop raises was to 20 (with marginal hands) and still got 3-4 callers. These first few hands busted atleast 1 player on the table.
   This guy raises UTG to 40 and says "I do not want to see the flop" and shows 99.
   I was reading players well and knew who were tight and who were donkeys.
   I even put the tight players on hands and I was right every time.
   I played ultra tight because of the raises in front of me. I never got to open raise on the button or CO.

   The game got settled down after some time and people started limping a lot.
   I only limped once from blind with A9 when everybody limped.
   I was getting bad hands. The best hand I picked up was At which I folded to raise in front of me.

   So I was down by 225 after paying the rake and blinds.

   Hand #1 (Some pot odds analysis and people analysis)
   ----------------
   Please comment on my line especially preflop.
   It was a 10 player table.
   I was two positions before the button.

   Preflop:

   Everybody folded before me.
   I pick up
   

   and raise to 10 which was a small raise on this table.
   The lady who was running good to the left of me called. (Stack >500 )
   The button raised to 30. (Stack 83)
   I knew the lady was playing speculative hands so I was not too concerned about her.
   I knew the button is playing loose but I thought "he knows I am tight so he cannot raise with crap".
   So I put him on 3 hands {AA}, {KK}, {AK} or total junk. So I called to see the flop. If I only put him on AA, KK I would not have called getting no implied odds if I flop a set.
   This turned out to be my only mistake (Sklansky mistake - mistake that you would not make if you knew what he had).
   The lady on my left called.
   So I pot had 95$ already after the flop.

   Flop:

   The flop comes
   
   giving me top set
   Because there was no flush draw I wanted to check and trap the button who after showing strength preflop is likely to fire.
   I did not think of potential straight and open ended straight draws at this point which is probably as mistake.
   The lady in CO checked and button put in the rest 53$.
   So I started thinking about the possible straights. I did not think anyone would in 30$ preflop with J9. So I put the button on AA, KK.
   I wanted the lady in CO to call that bet with crap like , or monsters like , .
   At this point only hand that beats me is and only big draws that can get there are .
   At this point the pot is (3x30+2x53) = 196 and I have 140 left.

   To my surprise, the lady loudly said all in.
   So the pot is 196+53 lady's call+140 (her allin) = 389
   First I was surprised then happy.
   So with only one hand that can beat me, I figured my equity was high.
   I was also getting great odds (140 into 389) .
   My odds to improve were better than that so I insta called.

   I turned to the lady and asked "You have the straight?"
   She said yes and turned over J9 of hearts.
   I was devastated not too surprised.
   The turn and river blanked and I lost the biggest amount ever in one hand.
   I left immediately because I play bad when I am steaming.
   I did not say anything to my opponent because that was her style and this was her day.

   What did I learn about live games:

   Playing live is so much softer. Fish will pay off their stack to see a showdown.

   Even though technically I made mistakes (if I had known their hands) I think I made the right plays against the range of hands the opponents could hold.

   I am not complaining about the bad beat / cold deck.
   I just wanted to record this big hand and get some feedback from all of you.

   What would you have done preflop?

   What would you on the flop?

   Posted by Krishna at 2008-03-02 01:14:36

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Comments on “Live session March 1”

1. • Posted by Jason M g 2008-03-06 17:47:40
   • 

   • Wait, $6 per 10 minutes? Or did you just typo and mean 30 minutes? Yeah, that's weird if you just sit down right before the rake, but I guess you could pay that rake and then get up right before the next one, so it's not that big of a deal.

     Good luck when you go back. Have you tried Lucky Chances? I've never been to Joe's, but I think they are close. Send me an email when you are thinking about going again. I am always looking for excuses, but I rarely go.

     I have off next Friday and might try and hit one of the daily tourneys somewhere. I never get an opportunity to do that!

2. • Posted by Krishna g 2008-03-06 16:37:59
   • 

   • Rake: After every 10 minutes into the game the dealer asked us to pay 6$. I did not last long enough to figure out other complications - what if someone sits down 5 minutes before rake paying time?

     Yes I was observing well but it does not work on fish. Thanks for the link.

     Yes live was a lot of fun. I will go back sometime soon.
     I am a bank roll nit but the game is so soft I want to take my chances.

3. • Posted by Jason M g 2008-03-06 07:37:50
   • 

   • Nice post. I have lots of different things.

     First, tell me how the $6/half-hour rake works. I've heard of that, but never participated.

     Secondly, I like to hear your observations skills are in working order. As you realized later, most players (even decent ones) don't observe that closely, and certainly don't make intelligent hand and play selections based on what they could have observed.

     Just for fun: Ever hear of Caro's "loose-wiring" theory? That's another good one to consider, especially at the casino.

     Live is more fun and is usually more soft. That being said, playing really well at high limits online is worth a lot more, especially considering you can get some rake back and not tip the dealers!

     And finally, I would have re-raised preflop. That dude's putting the rest of his money in regardless, and the only way you are folding is if you see A/K on the flop and you feel when he goes all in that he wants a call. Either way, after the lady is in, and goes all in, you have to call. You're hitting your house 33% of the time, and you should have her beat most of the time.

     I hope this experience doesn't keep you from the casinos for long. I think you'd have good experiences over all. Patience and observation really pay off there.

4. • Posted by Krishna g 2008-03-03 17:44:46
   • 

   • Yes, you are right.
     The right move preflop would would be to put the button allin. The lady would have folded immediately. I probably was thinking on teh second level when as the donkey was just gambling.
     Here are the lessons learnt.

     Lesson 1: With his stack being only 40BB I should have gambled against his range which I knew was loose. The good think was I had made commitment decision that with no A, K on the flop I would put him allin. I did not expect the lady would come along for 30$ after seeing raise reraise!

     Lesson 2: I was thinking "he knows I am tight so he has to have monster hands".
     Donkeys don't observe you and adjust. They just gamble with low pairs, AJ, etc.

5. • Posted by Graham g 2008-03-03 07:37:57
   • 

   • ps, That last anonymous comment was me. I'll fess up...

6. • Posted by Anonymous g 2008-03-03 07:35:20
   • 

   • It's easy to say now, but one more raise (not necessarily all in) would have given you a lot more information. Say you raise another 50-60. You find out just how much the speculator is willing to gamble (after two more raises in front of her) and you find out if the button is willing to put his stack in the middle that hand (putting him on a bigger hand). Depends on how solid your read is on the button.

7. • Posted by Krishna g 2008-03-03 05:47:18
   • 

   • About preflop:
     If I knew button ( a shortstack guy) had KK, AA then calling to see flop is -ev since he is short stacked and I would not make much money out of my set. But the fact that he was playing loose I balanced his AA,KK, AK range with low pairs etc and thought it is at least worth a call.
     What I noticed is that donkeys tend to raise big with small pairs putting others on Ak, AQ and they don't want to see A or K on the flop.
     The button showed 44 after all the fireworks.

     Now after knowing how donkeys play I think I should have 4 bet the button allin to avoid tough situations on the flop out of positon (A or K on board) with three players.

8. • Posted by Nick L g 2008-03-03 02:54:48
   • 

   • Good read preflop if u really thought the button was on AA or KK then it was a good call just to see the flop. But if that was her style of play then re raising her all in would be a high consideration but who knows. If u thought u were spot on u can't really fault your play I like to play QQ aggressive facing a raise myself.