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Propping on High Stakes Poker?

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1. • Posted by Jason M 2008-04-22 03:56:35
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   • So I'm sitting at home trying to make excuses to not start working after a very tasty bento box dinner, and one distraction I can count on is my DVR filled with High Stakes Poker episodes. I'm not so sure it is useful to watch these people toss bundles of hundreds around, but it sure is entertaining. I also especially like the fact that I can screw around on the internet, play with my kitty kat, and space out on things that interest me at the time.

     Anyway, I'm watching an episode recorded a while ago, and something caught my attention. Phil Laak just sat down and unloaded various bags filled with bundles of cash amounting to about 250k. The players were arguing whether or not to put the straddle on, and somebody made a comment about Phil having more money than anybody else. Phil responded with something like "It's not my money. I'm just a prop player. I charge $100 an hour and play with somebody else's money. Yeah, I just get paid to play my best and see what happens."

     What the hell? Do people just "invest" in him with their own money? What do they get out of it? He didn't have any URLs pasted on his hat or say anything else about whoever is sponsoring him. I don't get it. You can't tell me it's just about the investment... Perhaps they get any money he makes and he also does something else for them? Like let them use his name to promote their site, but just not promote it on the show?

2. • Posted by uzjedi 2008-04-22 07:56:50
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   • Tons and tons of pros and semi-pros get staked to play. There is usually someone out there willing to invest in a well known pro. Sometimes there will be many different backers.

     Yes, the backer gets a portion of the winnings. I've not heard of the $100 an hour thing outside of a deal like the Full Tilt pros get online. He could be talking about certain casinos he is paid to play at, or he could be talking about a specific backing deal with a certain investor. But trust me. TONS of those guys are not playing entirely their own money. A few are. But more often than not there is at least a % of it that comes from backers.

     Though, Phil does have a lot of money from things other than poker as well as his WPT winnings. Seems it would be no problem for him to play his own money. But you'll sometimes find guys who can afford it still taking backers anyway. Maybe just to reduce their own risk?

     I HATE the idea of playing someone else money, unless it was some sort of sponsorship with a poker site. I'd like to move up to high stakes cash and tourneys all on my own. Then you get to keep all the winnings. ;)

3. • Posted by Jason M 2008-04-22 17:03:25
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   • In the case of just a random backer, aside from a percentage of the winnings, do the backers get anything? It just seems weird to stake somebody to play against some of the best in the world on a random TV show and not get anything other than maybe some money back. Eh, whatever.

4. • Posted by Ethan 2008-04-23 02:16:55
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   • Seriously - how high can your ROI be in that kind of situation over time?

5. • Posted by Krishna 2008-04-23 05:30:13
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   • Speaking of Phil Laak -

     I heard 2+2 pokercast yesterday and Matt Flynn was talking about how he used to play with Phil, Bobby Hoff and Antonio at Lucky Chances.

     There can be other reasons behind staking. Why else would anyone stake Brandi?

6. • Posted by Jason M 2008-04-23 06:55:10
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   • Cuz she wears there logo? I don't know :p

7. • Posted by FREMONTkyle 2008-04-23 08:13:31
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   • generally what happens is someone stakes them and gets say 75% of the profit or in other situations like in the 10k buy in tourneys 4 players will buy a stake (percentage) of someone as in they pay 2,500 and they each do it 4 ways thus quadrupling the variance of them losing the whoe 10K yes it does mean if they hit pay dirt and win the whole thing they have to give 3/4ths the winnings away but it also ensures that if someone else wins they get a percentage also which helps them grind a lil more succesfully and gives them a slightly improved chance of picking up some money

8. • Posted by Jason M 2008-04-23 08:21:48
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   • Yeah, that makes sense, especially for the tournaments. I just don't understand it so much for the High Stakes Poker game. I suppose if you believe in the guy you are staking or are friends or whatever, it makes sense. But it sounded like Laak had a deal where he got 0 money except the $100 an hour fee. A bit weird, still.

9. • Posted by FREMONTkyle 2008-04-23 10:12:06
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   • that is true but with the money to be maid it seems like a rather cheap gamble for he person staking him esspesially with his previous appearances on high stakes but your right i doubt that was the offer on the table.

10. • Posted by uzjedi 2008-04-23 13:49:01
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    • Honestly, there is money to be made on that show. Yes, there are some of the world's best, but there are also fish every season. And even though someone like Farha knows how to take advantage of his image, I still consider him a gambling fish in that game. Same with Eli.

      Guys like them make a ton from sources other than poker. So it's not that crazy for someone to stake a cash game pro in that game.

      And besides all that, they also get an hourly rate just for being on the show. It's something like $1200-$1400 an hour. So even if there weren't any "fish," it's still juiced plenty to be worth playing.

      P.S. Brandi is dead BTW. Suicide about a week ago. There are 2+2 threads about it. (I assume we are talking about the same Brandi?)

11. • Posted by Jason M 2008-04-23 17:47:23
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    • I didn't know who Brandi is until Krishna mentioned her. Apparently I'm not up on "current events" :p Anyway, it took about 10 seconds to figure out who she is - just Google "Brandi Poker". Of course, I didn't look at the normal search results first; with a name like that, I go straight to the images :)

      Anyway, I didn't read much else, but now I spent the last 15 minutes catching up on the suicide thing. Wow. What a crazy story. I gave up after that because it's just so ridiculous I couldn't handle spending more time on it. Wow.

12. • Posted by Jason M 2008-04-23 17:48:08
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    • Oh yeah, and you are right about money to be made, I suppose. I have seen Sammy and Eli reload multiple times... And I haven't even watched that many episodes.

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