PokerSoup Forums > Strategy > Tournament situation - what to do?

Tournament situation - what to do?

• Page 1 of 1

1. • Posted by E 2008-09-07 19:06:12
   • 

   • Situation: Friday Bay101 tourney. 20 minute levels. 2nd hand of 500-1000 level. ~50 people left. You are still stacking your chips because you doubled up on previous hand to right about average with 10K in chips. You are the SB. BB is a tight player has slightly more chips than you. Indian guy in 2nd posn raises to 3K suspiciously leaving himself only 2K behind. You know he is a good player, you put him on a monster... The button, loose Chinese guy who just doubled you up, calls. He has about 2K left also. You put him on any two face cards, any ace, any pair.

     Anyway, your hand is . What is the correct thing to do?

2. • Posted by E 2008-09-07 21:30:44
   • 

   • Thanks Alexis, I specifically wanted to hear your opinion because you have played in that tournament and you have a feel for the flow of it... I will say what happened later... But I did not feel I could just call because that guarantees that the BB would have to come in, and then I am playing against three people.

3. • Posted by Jason M 2008-09-07 22:22:58
   • 

   • I'm not used to that game, but I agree with Alexis (and you). Calling is terrible. You can put a third of your stack to much better use... by playing a few more revolutions so your all in is more meaningful :) Unless you catch a good hand in the meantime. is just not a great hand, especially 2 or 3 ways when you expect to be beat already.

4. • Posted by E 2008-09-07 23:16:37
   • 

   • I guess the general question then would be, when should one go into a possibly negative expectation situation and gamble to build up chips? Let's change the parameters? What if I had double the chips? Some of you might have noticed that I play it too safe...

     Anyway, at least I am happy that I made the right decision, which is of course all you can do. The early posn player did indeed have , the loose button guy did indeed have junk with . The flop was , the turn was some sort of spade, and so was the river. I did not do very well in the end, I was getting short, pushed all in on the button with A10o and ran into KK so I finished in 18th place out of 109.

5. • Posted by Jason M 2008-09-08 03:13:29
   • 

   • 18th out of 109 is pretty good, but too bad you had to run into KK.

     With 20k in chips you might see me making that call, but probably not. I dislike a lot, especially against a probable great hand and yet another (and maybe even another) player. You want a hand that at least is live. I guess they were suited... :p

     Keep in mind, even if you had 20k in chips, the most you could win was 5k from each player. Even if you hit tremendously hard, you weren't getting much more than what was in preflop. Not the implied kind of odds you are looking for.

6. • Posted by FREMONTkyle 2008-09-09 02:22:37
   • 

   • i like the analgoy and i definatly fold also here because you know that when a normal player doesnt commit all his chips when hes short stack hes looking to get action and therefore he has a huge hand and AJ suited or not is a mediocre hand i dont think id call with AQ suited here either and if the player is as tight as you describe id fold AK os here also because its a drawing hand and at best your up against QQ in this situation possibly a suited AK and your gambling to split a pot or drawing 30% not worth it

7. • Posted by Craig 2008-09-09 03:30:30
   • 

   • AJ is evil. See previous post.

     Ya, the guy not moving all-in short stacked is a red flag. I'd probably moan and groan but reluctantly fold.

8. • Posted by Jason M 2008-09-10 17:27:25
   • 

   • I think if I'm playing to win I fold that hand. :/ is just such a bad hand, especially when you know you are probably waaaaay behind for the main pot. Maybe I need to analyze it more because I trust your judgment, Alexis. I have no problem taking risks to win instead of folding to the money. So I'll do some math and get back to ya.

     BTW, mathematically, rushes are total bullshit (and we all know this, right?). But what's interesting are the psychological factors that accompany a so-called rush, both for you and your opponents, which make the concept of a rush not-so-bullshit. This seems like a good topic for further discussion in the forum or a blog post. Hmmm....

9. • Posted by E 2008-09-10 18:38:45
   • 

   • What is the definition of a rush? I did win a race the previous hand, but it was right after a break. Does a rush start after one hand or does it take more? I do not believe in rushes mathematically (like Jason), but I believe in the rush psychological component that may affect other people's perception so one can play into that – that is definitely true!

     Anyway, poker is a cruel game. I was punished for paying attention! If I wasn't completely sure the first player had a huge pair I would have called. Maybe even went all in again. That would have been a better play (thoughts?). If I had just called, then the BB has to call 2k into a pot of 10k, with his stack of ~15k, he gets a really good price to call if his cards are not total junk.

     P.S. Alexis, thanks for your confidence. I really appreciate it. Now my Fridays are fairly open, so maybe we can all set up a field trip to that tournament together on a given day. I really like having people I know around to cheer for or get support from...

10. • Posted by Jason M 2008-09-11 21:06:36
    • 

    • I'm running short on time today, so just a couple quick responses to you, Alexis ;)

      When somebody has won a few pots in a short period of time (whether or not they won a race, in my opinion), they are on something of a rush. With those gained chips and especially the gained confidence, you usually will be forced to play a bigger pot, as Alexis suggested. I know when I've been doing well I tend to increase my likelihood of continuation bets...

      I also agree with Alexis that you can't wait for the nuts to put your chips in. Anybody who has read (and agrees with) Harrington will understand that. However, I prefer to be the aggressor in those situations. I suppose the difference between pushing all in with suboptimal hands (taking advantage of fold equity) and calling a third of your chips off when you know you are beat preflop is that you will only lose a third of your chips.

      I need to go back to Harrington and do some thinking on this one. I'm pretty sure he suggest with a low M (like 6.5 that you had) you don't flat call multi-way pots with drawing hands. However, his advice isn't the only way to do things. It just happens to work really well for me! Thanks for making me think about this one :)

• Page 1 of 1