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Preflop Strategy with AJs on the Button

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1. • Posted by Jason M 2008-11-03 06:59:24
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   • I ran into this tonight. What do you think?

     Playing in a $10+1 45-person tournament on FullTilt. You are 3rd in chips with 4300 with 21 players left and the average stack is 3200. You are playing 9-handed with 60/120 blinds.

     You have:

     The player at UTG+2 hasn't been playing many pots and is fairly short at 1850. He opens the pot for 360, leaving about 1500 behind. Action folds to you on the button. No significant information on the two players in the blind aside from the fact that they have about average stacks.

     If the blinds fold, the pot going to the flop will be 900. Your M is 23, but your effective M against the raiser is 10.

     What do you do?

2. • Posted by Pokermom 2008-11-03 23:21:36
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   • You know me, Jason. I would fold. 3X raise UTG from a guy that hasn't played many pots... Shoot, I don't even care if I have position on him. He very likely has a pair or an ace. If he has a pair, it's a race. If he has an ace, he's likely to have as good or better kicker. But I don't know if it is a pair or an ace...

     So, I can do 3 things:

     I can raise
     But I don't raise with AJ at this point in the tourney against such an opponent. I'm only going to be called with a better hand, typically.

     I can call
     But I can't because what happens if an ace hits the board? Is my kicker good? What if a Jack hits the board? Is my pair good - shoot this guy could have QQ or hit a set with that very same jack (or other card on the board). I would need to hit JJ or a flush draw/straight draw to feel good about this hand. What are the odds of hitting that on the flop? Yeah, not high.

     I can fold
     Yep. That's what I'm doing. All I'm sacrificing is position. I'll get that again in another orbit and my M is pretty healthy, so I'll wait to mix it up another hand. Anyways, I prefer to be the initial aggressor with AJ, I simply hate calling with it.

     If the UTG guy had been a bigger stack and one who played a lot of pots, I would likely raise to get rid of any action from the blinds and hopefully take the pot down right then and there, or, better yet, get a loose call and potentially rake more chips.

     We rarely agree on what to do as I tend to fold in a lot more instances than you do. Perhaps I play too tight. I think maybe I do. But that's my 2 cents, worth every penny, both of them.

     - lexis

     p.s. I don't go for that "It's only a $10" tourney bs. I play $1 SNG with the trappiest of trappers who min raise with KK and call me down when I hit a Q on a Q high flop, only re-raising a tad on the river to get that last bit of value out of me. In other words, there are some very good players at low stakes online. Some real crappy ones too, but once you have eliminated half of the field in a tourney, the remaining players are typically good with a few lucky dumbasses sprinkled in to keep everything unpredictable.

     p.p.s. I'm going to bet you played this hand. I will put the UTG guy on pocket 10s and you both hit the board. How wrong am I?

3. • Posted by Pokermom 2008-11-04 00:07:17
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   • Hey, since we are on this subject, I actually had a very similar situation at a cash game yesterday... Except I was out of position so maybe it's easier to fold in this situation.

     $100 buy-in $0.50/$1.00 cash game. I'm in the bb with AJs.

     A guy UTG raises modestly to $2.50 as he does with every hand he plays (and he plays a lot of them). UTG guy is loose and likes to outplay better hands (and has made me fold the better hand a lot). Next position calls as does 2 more players when it gets to me.

     I state, "I can't call with this hand. I need to isolate play with the person who has a real hand."

     I raise $15 on top of the $2.50 bet.

     Folds to the intial raiser who insta-folds, as expected, and then, Whoa! I get re-raised another $15 by a lady who has not only been running hot but never re-reraises unless she has a hand.

     Folds back to me. I get my wish - isolation. I also have a lot of information. I'M BEHIND! Of that, I am 100% certain.

     I open fold my AJs. The UTG is pretty disgusted with my laydown - $42.50 dead with a $15 live bet so my pot odds were almost 3:1 on a call.

     The re-raiser slyly smiles and opens her KK. I was correct, I was WAY BEHIND.

     But... The UTG is still disgusted with my laydown, considering the dead money. He argues that I made a bad laydown.

     I use the same argument that I sorta used with you in my post above - "How can I call when I'm pretty sure I'm behind?" A Jack high board hits and I could go broke on that hand. And if an ace hits... She acts last - if I were her, I would bet an ace flop with her KK if I checked it and I would re-raise me if I bet. She can't check it. She has to know right then and there if I have an ace or a pair and by betting, I will likely not re-raise her, might even fold, and she either gets the pot right then or gets a card at the price she chose with control of the betting.

     So. Not exactly the same situation as a cash game is far more active than a tournament when you are midway and the blinds are up, but similar enuf.

     - lexis

4. • Posted by BayAreaBoss 2008-11-05 02:40:59
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   • Alexis is right. Folding is the best move here being that you are in 3rd place in the whole tourney. Pick a better spot to go heads up with a player. AJ suited is only a

     A. You want to be the one to set the agression first when the big stack. Otherwise reraise with a better hand to put pressure back on orig. raiser
     B. Even if he has an under pair, he is still ahead and you have to catch 51% of the time to win the pot and putting 12% of your chipstack at risk is potentially not worth the call.
     C. The opponent would continuation bet the majority of the time to find out where he's at. If you miss completely then you don't know where you are if you just smooth called preflop. Then your faced with having to get creative to take the pot.
     D. If you call this, then you should be willing to comit an additional 1500 to the pot(the remaining amount of the opponent)
     **If you reraise then you could be playing more of loose stlye poker with the big stack (positively create or maintain your table image) but then chances you will not remain in 3rd chip lead position for very long because to much of your play would be based on luck.

     Note: If the oppenent had less than 10x the big blind (around 100 or less) to go then you could call or raise to try to get lucky and knock him out of the tournament. But with 21 players remaining in a 45 total player field you still have a long way to go and chances of you maintaining top 3 position even if you when that pot are still pretty slim.

     There are so many exceptions: if you have been playing very tight up until this point and haven't seen a decent hand in a while but have been able to manage accumulating chips because of tight good play then you might be able to play here considering that you are the type to wait for only good hands. Regardless you will only be getting about 2.3 or so to 1 on your money. Decent but not awesome.

     Ultimately, Big Stack (chip lead) play should be played very tight. Bully with the top 10 hands meaning raise or reraise(not smooth call). You don't want to put too many chips at risk unless less you can isolate a short stacked player who's allin or must go allin. Stay away from other big stacks. Pick a better spots than AJ against tight players. Rather you be the initial raiser with AJ suited

     those are my thoughts. AK or AQ would be a much better hand to have here and if thats the case, then you could come over the top to put him all in and hope for the best with a semi good hand.
     Regarding the blinds, the raiser can expect to collect the the blinds 80% of the time to thier folds. They could wake up with a hand too but 3x the BB is enough to ensure they are not limping with garbage.

     I have to ask...What did you end up doing afterall? I'm assuming it didn't go your way or you folded otherwise you might have posted this question.

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