PokerSoup Forums > Strategy > I'm a donkey for playing this hand

I'm a donkey for playing this hand

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1. • Posted by James P. 2009-05-27 06:05:01
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   • Was up at in tahoe this weekend playing 2-3 NL at Harvey?s when this hand came up. I had bought in for 160 and worked my stack up to about 220 after playing for about 45 minutes. New guy takes the seat immediately to my right and buys in for 200. Never seen or played with him before. The game is really soft ? with lots of limping and lots of players seeing the flop.

     3 people limp in front me and I decide for some reason unbeknownst to me to call w/ Q2c (sooted!) in the cutoff. I intend to folding anything worse than 2pr or better or a flush draw on the flop. Button folds, SB complete, BB checks his option. Flops comes:

     Qx9x2x rainbow

     Checked around to the new guy, who bets $10. I raise to $30 for value and to isolate. Everybody folds and new guy calls the $20. He calls pretty quickly, so I???m putting him on a QJ, QK, QT, TJ, JK sort of a hand. Turn comes:

     Tx (still a rainbow board)

     I really didn???t like this card as it improved JK and QT and gave QJ and QK a bunch more outs. I feel like I have a pretty mediocre hand at this point. He checks and I check, not wanting to get check raised or face a big bet on the river due to the pot size. River comes:

     Qx

     Yahtzee ? queens full! New guy bets $30. I think for a little while and raise to $80, thinking he has probably has trips with a K or J kicker (or maybe a straight) and I?ll get paid. New guy thinks for what seems like a minute and goes all in for ~$110 more. I have him barely covered. I say out loud ?this is really sick? and mentally punch myself in the junk for playing such a stupid hand.

     But I got myself in this situation, which I've beat myself up for multiple since this hand occurred. So now what?

2. • Posted by Mr. Segan 2009-05-27 06:11:57
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   • Your hand looks pretty solid right now, and without any hesitation I would make the call (The way the action went). But, if that was the case, why would you post this hand here? lol

     I figure you got beat by Q9/QT.

3. • Posted by Tony Gags 2009-05-27 14:11:39
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   • Call 99.9 percent of time. the .1 percent is when he shows you his cards and says. "hey I know you got q2 so I feel bad, see I have q10"

4. • Posted by Svidri 2009-05-27 16:55:49
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   • James P. said:

     I intend to folding anything worse than 2pr or better or a flush draw on the flop.

     Ok. This is horrible logic. You are committing way too much of your stack to try and hit 2p when he hits top pair, which happens about 1% of the time. When you flop a flush draw, you are only ever drawing to the nuts when the board is exactly AKxss, which should be the only other time you should be very happy to get it in with this hand.

     What does this mean? Well since you are not giving yourself the right price to play +ev poker by hitting a made hand or a nut flush, the ONLY POSSIBLE WAY to make playing this hand +ev is to bluff sometimes (actually, to bluff a lot) post flop. Since we are talking lol-live poker, you will need a really good image to do this or put yourself in a good spot to float the dude to your right... and chances are the game is too loose to get HU, so you need to be really good to float in a multiway pot...

     If this is your plan, and you are a good enough hand reader, then you can play this hand IP. I'm not so worried that the blinds can squeeze at this level, so it's less of a mistake.

     But I got myself in this situation, which I've beat myself up for multiple since this hand occurred. So now what?

     Your dream situation has occurred. You have the nuts dude... snap call. Or slow-roll like I think you did to tilt the dude to your right and sweep up more of his cash when he reloads.

     Edit: also, he thinks for a long time before jamming. This is probably a timing tell, because he probably sucks, which makes your snap-call even better.

5. • Posted by James P. 2009-05-28 04:26:19
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   • Yeah, I realize I'm getting better than 3 to 1 with the 3rd nut full house and I have to call expecting to see QT. He rolls over Q9 for a rather passively played top 2 on the flop. He claims he put me on a set of deuces (not sure I believe that).

     Clearly the big mistake in this hand was playing it to begin with. I posted it because I wanted to see if anyone thought folding on the river was correct. I really wanted to fold thinking that the only hand I could really beat given the action was KJ (unless he's a noob, he's not 3 betting all in on the river with KQ or AQ and given the time he took on the river that wasn't what I put him on). He would have 3 bet the flop with 99 and calling the flop raise with TT is unlikley (althought not impossible). Anyway, given my hand strength and pot odds, I think I have to make the crying call.

6. • Posted by James P. 2009-05-28 04:27:44
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     Ok. This is horrible logic. You are committing way too much of your stack to try and hit 2p when he hits top pair, which happens about 1% of the time. When you flop a flush draw, you are only ever drawing to the nuts when the board is exactly AKxss, which should be the only other time you should be very happy to get it in with this hand.

     Yes, it is horrible logic, which is why I'm a donkey for playing it to begin with. :)

7. • Posted by Svidri 2009-05-28 17:04:59
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   • James P. said:

     Yeah, I realize I'm getting better than 3 to 1 with the 3rd nut full house and I have to call expecting to see QT. He rolls over Q9 for a rather passively played top 2 on the flop. He claims he put me on a set of deuces (not sure I believe that).

     Clearly the big mistake in this hand was playing it to begin with. I posted it because I wanted to see if anyone thought folding on the river was correct. I really wanted to fold thinking that the only hand I could really beat given the action was KJ (unless he's a noob, he's not 3 betting all in on the river with KQ or AQ and given the time he took on the river that wasn't what I put him on). He would have 3 bet the flop with 99 and calling the flop raise with TT is unlikley (althought not impossible). Anyway, given my hand strength and pot odds, I think I have to make the crying call.

     Hey James P, I'm not berating your pre-flop logic just for the sake of it. Sorry if I'm a little rough around the edges :)

     Anyway, ---

     edit: I'm reading the hand again and god this villain plays so bad... be happy you are on his left.

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