PokerSoup Forums > General > this made me sick cant stop going over it so someone tell me if im an idiot

this made me sick cant stop going over it so someone tell me if im an idiot

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1. • Posted by FREMONTkyle 2009-08-27 05:16:35
   • 

   • SO WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THIS HAND? i didnt have tracker running so not sure of stats
     but on the turn i put him on JJ
     PokerStars Game #32103701299: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00 USD) - 2009/08/26 21:32:26 PT 2009/08/27 0:32:26 ET
     Table 'Phocaea III' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
     Seat 1: 64 DEVILS ($147.30 in chips)
     Seat 2: RFKFREAK ($101.50 in chips)
     Seat 3: Hurloon ($110.60 in chips)
     Seat 5: livingod1 ($100 in chips)
     Seat 7: Bigfishead59 ($98.50 in chips)
     Seat 8: garyk1 ($35.85 in chips)
     Seat 9: csnyder16 ($116.80 in chips)
     64 DEVILS: posts small blind $0.50
     RFKFREAK: posts big blind $1
     ebnerfred111: sits out
     tylerboy2: sits out

     HOLE CARDS *
     Dealt to 64 DEVILS Qs Qc
     Hurloon: folds
     livingod1: folds
     Bigfishead59: folds
     garyk1: calls $1
     csnyder16: raises $3 to $4
     64 DEVILS: raises $7 to $11
     RFKFREAK: folds
     garyk1: folds
     csnyder16: calls $7

     FLOP * 6c 7s Tc
     64 DEVILS: bets $16
     csnyder16: calls $16

     TURN * 6c 7s Tc 8s
     64 DEVILS: bets $20
     csnyder16: calls $20

     RIVER * 6c 7s Tc 8s 9d
     ebnerfred111 leaves the table
     Micha126 joins the table at seat #4
     64 DEVILS: checks
     csnyder16: bets $69.80 and is all-in
     64 DEVILS said, "you got JJ"
     64 DEVILS said, "i had you crushed with QQ"
     64 DEVILS: calls $69.80

     SHOW DOWN *
     csnyder16: shows Js Jd (a straight, Seven to Jack)
     64 DEVILS: shows Qs Qc (a straight, Six to Ten)
     csnyder16 collected $232.60 from pot

     SUMMARY *
     Total pot $235.60 | Rake $3
     Board 6c 7s Tc 8s 9d
     Seat 1: 64 DEVILS (small blind) showed Qs Qc and lost with a straight, Six to Ten
     Seat 2: RFKFREAK (big blind) folded before Flop
     Seat 3: Hurloon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
     Seat 5: livingod1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
     Seat 7: Bigfishead59 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
     Seat 8: garyk1 folded before Flop
     Seat 9: csnyder16 (button) showed Js Jd and won ($232.60) with a straight, Seven to Jack

     THAT SAID DO YOU FOLD HERE?
     IM NEW TO THIS LEVEL SO

2. • Posted by BayAreaBoss 2009-08-27 22:23:49
   • 

   • by the river card, trips, straight, and two pairs have you. U could beat missed flush draws, one pair, not much else. Most avg. players holding A's or K's would have reraised you by then.
     Opponent probably assumed you didn't have straight with the river check & bets on all prior streets so even if he didn't have the str8 a large bet/allin on river is an advanced play (best option to try to win the hand).
     For me it might of been one of spots where I might have to consider laying down what is possibly the best hand.
     I'm always weary of the check-call, check-call, largebet/allin on the river -looks like a monster hand or advanced bluffing. often times its the monster hand, most players are not that good to bluff the river like that..anyway this is all just hindsight thinking. its always harder making a decesion in the heat of the moment

3. • Posted by FREMONTkyle 2009-08-27 23:53:24
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   • what level do you play on line? because 2 pair is damn near impossible on that board unless its a recklace player
     or donk and he was neither. you need to re read the post i think because the rier puts straight on board. your wrong none of those hands beat me on the river. i cant beat one pair and

4. • Posted by BayAreaBoss 2009-08-31 05:06:44
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   • oh yea looks like i read it wrong. ic theres a straight on the board already. true that, oh well. disregard my above statement. i should reads these more closely

5. • Posted by Svidri 2009-08-31 20:49:37
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   • your 3b is way too small here. you are deep and oop. make it like 14 or 15. also, reads are good to have. by the turn you need to stop barreling an unknown because it's very rare you get value from worse.

6. • Posted by Tony Gags 2009-09-01 03:43:15
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   • Svidri said:

     by the turn you need to stop barreling an unknown because it's very rare you get value from worse.

     A+

7. • Posted by FREMONTkyle 2009-09-03 07:22:31
   • 

   • the 2nd barrel was more of a defensive bet i know it doesnt make sense for a defensive bet out of position, but if i check there im folding 90% of the time on the turn. 5% calling because i talk my self into believing he could be an idiot shoving with 88, 99 thinking i continuation bet with AK or maybe he has some flush draw. other 5% calling because after re playing hand im really convinced ive got him crushed.
     bottom line MY BIGGEST MISTAKE was not making it 15 pre flop but i think given action of the last 25 hands i think hes gunna call since it would of been the second time i re raised him same spot same action same players.
     so given information both of you would of shut down on turn and folded if he bet turn?????
     is the theory for this that you dont want to inevitably risk your stack on turn and river without knowing 100% your ahead?
     if i had bet 15 pre there is 32 on flop would following up with 20 be decent enough bet on that flop? i figure hes not donk nor great REG. in this situation do you guys shut down on turn? or does that situation change things?
     I THINK A SHOVE in either situation this particular time gets called because i dont think he was letting it go.

     IM JUST CURIOUS NOW AS TO WHAT you 2 would do since you guys have more expierience than me online

8. • Posted by Svidri 2009-09-03 21:04:36
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   • holy shit i thought this was 50nl game but it's 100nl. edit: i still think the 3-bet is small at 11bbs, especially after an isolation. you are oop and there's the extra limp in there, so i think a standard of 12bbs + 1 or 2 for being oop and + 1 for the isolation = 15bb or so.

     you don't want JJ folding. the idea is to get value from worse hands at small stakes. last time i checked QQ is better than JJ so you want him CALLING with worse.

     the problem is that when the turn comes 67T, 8, well you probably aren't stacking 1-pair type hands on that 3-straight 1-gap board, and the only hand that you ever get value from is exactly JJ. there are only 6 combos of JJ, so it's rare you get value from worse. and sometimes he folds JJ because the relative value is weak, but it's hard to fold an overpair, so let's say he only has 5 combos of JJ. that's a very narrow range to get called by worse. (edit: this is assuming you made a normal barrel size on the turn, he's probably never folding JJ to the small bet you made)

     the rest of the time you value own yourself against a slowplayed AA/KK, and obv 2-pair+ calls 1 street. there are 12 combos of sets if he defends pps (this is obv a mistake but poker is a game of mistakes) and if villain defends suited connectors there's quite a few combos of 2p also. his calling range therefore consists primarily of hands that beat you.

     you might be able to bluff him off 2p and POSSIBLY sets on the river. you can do the math to see how often it has to succeed to be profitable (basically a function of pot odds), and if it's +ev it's going to be razor thin. we don't make money running big bluffs @ SSNL.

9. • Posted by Svidri 2009-09-03 21:10:22
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   • i guess JTs could be in his range too and maybe he doesn't fold the pair + gutty. so add 3 combos of JTs for a total of like 8 combos you beat that he calls.

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