PokerSoup Forums > Strategy > Did I make the right fold?

Did I make the right fold?

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1. • Posted by TonyBerman 2009-07-27 00:49:01
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   • I feel 99% certain I did, but the guy wouldn't show or even comment on the hand. At this point in the tourney i was well below chip average, and the pot odds were even money so I called. I hit my Ace high Flush, then had to fold it. Did I make a disciplined laydown, or a terrible play? Oh, his table image was tight/aggressive. The bet on the river would have pushed me all in.

     The button is in seat #8

     • • • HOLE CARDS *

     Dealt to tonyberman61 6c Ac
     Bradok_Delta calls 60
     riroured folds
     Hottest of fire calls 60
     porcupinejr calls 60
     tonyberman61 calls 60
     squirllsfood folds
     Mayajai folds
     jjcash902 calls 30
     purelamb checks

     • • • FLOP * 5h 5c Kc

     jjcash902 checks
     purelamb has 15 seconds left to act
     purelamb checks
     Bradok_Delta bets 360
     Hottest of fire folds
     porcupinejr folds
     tonyberman61 calls 360
     jjcash902 folds
     purelamb has 15 seconds left to act
     purelamb folds

     • • • TURN * 5h 5c Kc 7c

     Bradok_Delta checks
     tonyberman61 bets 360
     Bradok_Delta calls 360

     • • • RIVER * 5h 5c Kc 7c Ks

     Bradok_Delta has 15 seconds left to act
     Bradok_Delta bets 900
     tonyberman61 has 15 seconds left to act
     tonyberman61 has requested TIME
     tonyberman61: im folding the ace high flush................
     tonyberman61 folds
     Uncalled bet of 900 returned to Bradok_Delta
     Bradok_Delta mucks
     Bradok_Delta wins the pot (1,800)

2. • Posted by Jason M 2009-07-27 07:08:00
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   • Disclaimer: I don't know how the games at those stakes play out, so please keep that in mind. Also, I don't pretend to know everything (not even close) about playing poker, but I'd like to think some of my thoughts are reasonable :)

     When I read your description of the hand, my first thought was that I'd rarely fold a nut flush in a tournament when I was well below the chip average. However, when I saw the flop you were dealing with I figured the river was a board pair, so I reconsidered it.

     4 people limped into this pot. Crazy! If I get into a pot, I usually come in raising. I'm not sure if I would limp in your position there with , but for 60 when you have 1000 or so it seems okay, especially if you are in late position. I would never limp earlier position or without the protection and pot odds of the 3 other limpers.

     I'm not sure if I would have played the hand quite as passively on the flop. If you aren't ready to put this guy to the test with that flop, what flop are you looking for? He's betting pot. That seems weak. Put him to the test. Do you think he's capable of folding on that board? If that's what you put him on, you have 12 outs twice, which makes it fifty-fifty, plus he might fold (so you have fold equity).

     I think it's important to make these kind of plays in order to place deep in a tournament. Of course, you'll also get knocked out here and there, but those are the breaks. If you have 20-40 tournament buyins in your bankroll and you are playing well, you'll survive, and you'll win that hand enough times, too.

     Anyway, if you just call, I'd put the rest in on that turn. It allows you to not make any mistakes. If you let the river come off and fold, that could be a mistake (he could have QQ, AJ, or a flush, too). Put your money in good, let him call with his draw, and don't make any bad folds. Of course, you will lose sometime, too.

     Also, keep in mind pot odds are not as important in a tournament. Each successive chip you lose was worth more than the previous one, and your last chip is worth far more than your first chip. You can't just buy back in again. Therefore, even with perfect pot odds (i.e. the guy showed you his cards and you can mathematically make the call), you don't always want to go for it. Sometimes still being in the tournament is worth more than the chips in the pot. Hopefully you can get your money in with them drawing dead!

     Another thing to consider: What does Bradok limp in with here under the gun? Any KQ/KJ/KT seems good, or a random ace or two suited cards. What are the chances of each of those? Would he shove that river with ace high? I might...

     Tough situation. It seems unlikely you were beat, but it was close. Maybe 40/60. I might have just folded preflop ;)

3. • Posted by Foster 2009-07-27 07:33:49
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   • He/I had the five, i wasn't going anywhere...LOL

4. • Posted by Jason M 2009-07-28 07:03:33
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   • bump.

     anybody else have any thoughts?

5. • Posted by Svidri 2009-07-28 18:51:49
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   • Would be nice to know stakes + stacks... but with this info the river looks like a good spot to fold. Also, fold pre.

6. • Posted by TonyBerman 2009-07-28 21:22:32
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   • Yeah, folding preflop would have kept me out of a dangerous hand, but at this point in the tourney I took a shot with it. I wouldn't have called any raise preflop, but for the price I was just trying to get lucky. I understand ace/6 suited's value isn't too much, but this one hand was where I took a chance. Any suited ace is, atleast in my playbook, playable when you know you're just trying to hit. Under the gun, or facing a raise I would have been long gone preflop.

7. • Posted by Dan/TripleLCA 2009-07-28 22:35:21
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   • I'm curious to know your starting chip stack in that hand. It looks like you put 780 chips into that hand at 30/60 blinds, and still had enough chips left to fold in the end, I do think the guy had a King and put you on either trip 5's or the flush, but your equity to call was at least 3 to 1. There is a chance he was pushing on the idea that you were simply floating him on the flop, put a small bet out on the turn and he thought he could push you of a flush or bluff if that's why you were still in the hand. That being said, it should have never gotten to the river. I think the Ac6c call after a few limps is a good flat call, you were obviously playing that hand with at least 13bb to have one chip going into the river and I'm assuming you had way more than that to fold into a 1600 chip pot plus his river bet of 900. I semi-like the limp w/ Ac6c there (assuming you have between 16-25 bb) with the late position, I'm not sure of your poker style but I myself would not have popped it up pre-flop and played aggressively from behind unless I had closer to 30 bb going into the hand. Otherwise any check, re-raise from an earlier position opponent on the flop would cripple you pretty good, all for a weak ace. A fold would have been better. So, getting back to the flop, you almost can't hit a better flop, the paired 5's are a little scary but this is a great opportunity for a short stack to make a move and catch up. I think a re-raise to at least 1100 knowing you are calling a push. You are very lucky you hit the turn, you were about 20% to hit a flush on the turn and that is why the first guy now checked the turn- again. You need to take advantage there! By only betting 360 into a pot of about 1000 you gave him an opportunity to stick around and see if he can hit a miracle king or at least get you to check down the river to see if his King is good. But he called and got there. When you are fortunate enough to take the lead in a hand, don't give other players the chance to stick around- you need to make them pay. You will lose some bad ones, but poker is a game of scenario's played out thousands of times over and you will max your returns by forcing others to get their money in behind.

8. • Posted by Jerm 2009-12-15 03:25:14
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   • i dont hate the preflop limp and definately like the river fold. probably woulda pushed hard when you turn ur nut flush. agree with rest with needing to know chip count and blinds etc

9. • Posted by Greyson 2010-05-25 19:45:25
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   • TonyBerman said:

     Yeah, folding preflop would have kept me out of a dangerous hand, but at this point in the tourney I took a shot with it. I wouldn't have called any raise preflop, but for the price I was just trying to get lucky. I understand ace/6 suited's value isn't too much, but this one hand was where I took a chance. Any suited ace is, atleast in my playbook, playable when you know you're just trying to hit. Under the gun, or facing a raise I would have been long gone preflop.

     i think the turn was the time to move all in...you may have moved him off the hand...when the k hit the river, you didn't have any other choice but to fold...the player is more important than the cards...did you get a read on him in earlier hands?..just a thought...all the best.

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