100BB and Beyond

  1. 2009-05-08 13:04:58

    Still grinding

    Still playing Full ring holdem and 6 max PLO.
    Also improving my play by learning and discussing hands
    Not ready to move up yet....

    Situations I am not sure about:
    Effective stacks = 100BB
    Assume villains are regulars and your image is regular.

    Situation 1:
    Full ring - you are loose opening 10% of range from UTG.
    You open QQ. CO 3 bets you pot.
    What would you do?

    Situation 2:
    Full ring - you are loose opening 10% of range from UTG.
    MP opens pot
    You 3bet pot with QQ. he bets pot
    What would you do?

    Situation 3:
    You call EP raise with AsKh
    Flop comes Ts7s3s
    He bets pot?
    What would you do?

    Posted by Krishna at 2009-05-08 13:04:58

Comments on “Still grinding”

    • avatar for Krishna
    • 1. In aggressive game we cannot let players exploit you. So we should 4bet small to induce shove or just raise allin. But lets say we are short on bankroll and we want to avoid preflop flips for stacks. Then we can fold but may be we should not be placed scared money in this game.

      2. If we have been 3betting enough (3-5%) villain might be over adjusting. Here I am more encouraged to shove more than 1 because of the dead money already in the pot. He is not folding but we have lot of equity against his range.

      3. Raising and getting it allin and calling are both fine.
      But I played this hand bad. I raised and when he 3bet me I did not have a plan. I tanked, wished that I had 3bet preflop and folded.

      There is an important concept a pro online player (samoleus) mentioned.
      'When you bet or raise you should know what you are going to go to do if villain makes a raise,. If not you should not have made this bet/raise.
      Without a plan, we end up flailing when we face an aggressive move by opponent (just like I did).
      I assumed in my mind that I he will fold or call. when he 3bet the flop, I did not know what to do.

      This is also an important concept when you make thin value bets on the river out of position. You need to have good read on opponent prior to making the bet.
      What I end up doing is I make the bet planning to fold. But when he raises me I look at the pot odds and call.
      Overall I played the following hand bad. I was playing lot of tables and was playing passively from blinds.
      But I played the river bad. The value bet is probably too thin on paired flush board when opponent bet the turn. I should have bet small and folded to raise for sure.
      Villain played better than me. He knew if he had to make value raise. But he bet big he will get called only by full houses. So he min raised and gave me nice price.

      Table French (deep) (Real Money)
      Seat 9 is the button
      Seat 1: Hero ( $51.00 USD )
      Seat 2: dolliedollar ( $47.60 USD )
      Seat 3: Trump34 ( $50.00 USD )
      Seat 4: DDrak ( $61.25 USD )
      Seat 5: Mac317 ( $72.65 USD )
      Seat 6: Plummer16 ( $34.70 USD )
      Seat 7: ---clau9--- ( $100.75 USD )
      Seat 8: smr58 ( $50.00 USD )
      Seat 9: vlrhsgo ( $106.20 USD )
      Hero posts small blind ($0.25 USD).
      dolliedollar posts big blind ($0.50 USD).

        • Dealing down cards **

      Dealt to Hero ( Qs Ac )
      DDrak folds
      Mac317 folds
      Plummer16 folds
      ---clau9--- raises ($1.00 USD)
      smr58 folds
      vlrhsgo folds
      Hero calls ($0.75 USD)
      dolliedollar calls ($0.50 USD)

        • Dealing Flop ** ( As, 8h, 8s )

      Hero bets ($2.00 USD)
      dolliedollar folds
      ---clau9--- calls ($2.00 USD)

        • Dealing Turn ** ( 6h )

      ---clau9--- bets ($7.00 USD)
      Hero calls ($7.00 USD)

        • Dealing River ** ( 7h )

      Hero bets ($11.50 USD)
      ---clau9--- raises ($23.00 USD)
      Hero calls ($11.50 USD)
      ---clau9--- shows (Ah, 9h )
      ---clau9--- wins $64.00 USD from main pot
      Hero doesn't show (Qs, Ac )

    • avatar for FREMONTkyle
    • I think it depeonds on how long youve een at the table for them to realise that your only opening with 10% if there good regulars then they might be testing you so i think this isnt as much a math question as it is how much attention youve been able to pay to the game and that particular player if your playing alot of tables and are unsure id just drop it because its a 50 50 spot and you cant loose your whole stack unless you stick it in in that spot there are alot of better spots based off math to find your self in so how often is that player making 3 bets ifs its 1 for every 100/hands id flat call and try to get a lil more info. if he 3 bets more than once every 100/hands i definatly re raise because then he could have AKos, AKs, AQs, JJ, which is twice the likly hood you have him beat vs the other hands of AA, KK and a minute possibility of a tie
      i think it also depends on if hes commited on whether or not you shove if you dont feel hes commited i think its more likly that you should flat call because when you shove and hes not commited only hands hes gunna call you with are AA KK maybe AKs in which case it doesnt boed well for you
      stiuation 2 i think depends on your view of this player if you view him as loose you probablly shove if hes tight you fold

      i cant wait till i start my online blogging adventures and get the input

    • avatar for Jason M
    • i agree it's pretty tough to fold the qq when raised by the late-positioner. i think it's a read based on how you've played and how that player has played against the other players. i don't mind getting it in with qq, especially after a good quarter of a full stack is in already. that compensates for the times they have kk+ because sometimes (albeit less) you will be against one or two overcards and sometimes even and underpair. in the end, most of the times i re-raise and then can not fold if they shove (if i didn't put them all in in the first place).

    • avatar for Svidri
    • The only hand in EP's **opening range that crushes us is TT.

      spelling edit

    • avatar for Svidri
    • Maybe I'm just being a spewtard and these are leaks of mine...

      Notice how if you defended your PFR to the CU 3B in example one, you are putting Villain in a tough spot when he doesn't have KK+ JUST LIKE you are in a tough spot in example two where the PFR defends against your 3B... when you 4B it doesn't have to be big because you want to induce by giving illusion of fold equity and call down spewy worse shoves. QQ is the third best hand in this game, so what are you afraid of?

      If you are 3Betting light a bunch at the start of your session, this is your dream situation, because villains get pissed easily and they start playing back when you have the nuts. If you are at a table where nobody is 3Betting, then maybe you can dump it?

      In hand three the EP raiser is repping overs and I think we are fine against this range, just get it in. The only hand in EP openers range that crushes us is TT. He is just Cbeting big to "charge draws." You have huge equity on the flop... mess with pokerstove and see how you do against a tight range. He probably shuts down with a 4flush, A, or K turn card, so just get it in now while you are ahead.

    • avatar for Jason M
    • I wish I knew enough to give good advice here, but let's see what I can come up with anyway.

      1. According to my research, I agree that at the lower limits 3-bets are rarely much less than AA/KK/QQ/AK. However, 1/2 isn't exactly the "lower limits" that I was referring to, and if you are playing against decent regulars, it seems like they could be applying some pressure with other more mediocre hands, depending on how they feel about you. Being OOP sucks. I've folded QQ preflop when I was 4-bet for my stack. Is this much different? I don't know...

      2. Seems similar. Is enough of their range AK/AQ/JJ to make this a call? Seems like a pot-odds problem.

      3. I don't mind getting it all in here. Raise/call. Hope you have 15 outs and that sometimes you are already ahead.

    • avatar for Krishna
    • Lets assume 1/2 online with decent regulars who are aggressive.
      1,2 are full ring , for 3 it should not matter.

      1: 4bet and get it in?
      Here is my concern. He know I opened UTG and so I have tight range and still he 3 bets...
      But he might know that I know that he knows.....
      In general people are not bluffing as much.

      Sorry my bad.
      I meant you are in CO but you have loose image overall (opening 10% UTG).

      AK flat should be at least low frequency (10-20%) for balancing purposes and deception.
      So your plan is to raise and call his all in?
      What is his range when he 3bets you? What would your equity be against that range?

    • avatar for Svidri
    • 3 edit: Just realized you are IP with As. You could play this fast with the 2nd nut draw.

      PFR = 4bb, flab = 4bb, 1.5 BB in blinds = 9.5 bb. His PSB makes it 19bb in the middle with like 77bb effective behind. Pot it back and hope for a shove, be happy to get it in. That's how I would play it... get it in on the flop or not at all. Maybe I'm wrong?

    • avatar for Svidri
    • What limits are you playing and which site? Knowing how bad the regs are helps our advice...

      I play 6M online but here's my thoughts:

      1: It's hard for me to live in a world where I don't 4bet a LP's 3B with QQ. If you want to flat here, remember you will be OOP for the rest of the hand. FWIW You never have odds to setmine 3bets with 100bbs so you are never looking for just a Q on the flop.

      2: I'm confused which position Hero is in. You say UTG but how do you 3bet MP here?

      3: Why isn't hero 3betting AK pre??? As played it's a c/f. If you are flatting AK pre you need to be able to check fold monotone and other super wet boards.